======================================================================. 3) Self defense from a bear attack with a pistol is a cautionary tale at best, correct? Hence common sense is applied to protect ones self. 12 GA WHAT IT LACKS IN ENERGY IT MAKES UP IN WEIGHT AND SIZE/CAL. Pistolero Magazine in the 1980s when shooting barnyard hogs found that there was no difference in killing power between the .357 magnum, .45 acp, 38 special and 919. grizzly charging at 30 mph, but the .44 magnum or better it will require is going to give you exactly one chance in 2.5 seconds to hit that bear precisely in the heart or brain. I havent seen anyone advocate using a pistol as an offensive weapon for bears in this thread, or in the article, it is specifically about using a pistol as a defensive weapon on a charging bear. I am not looking to go toe to toe with a Grizzly, but if I am out bow hunting or have set down my rifle to gut a deer it is far better to have a handgun that will effectively penetrate a large animal than to scramble for my rifle if I get charged. His father has tried in vain to get this sad lad committed to a psychiatric treatment facility for years with zero success. Spray products vary. Less felt recoil means a delf defense pistol that many small frame shooters can handle. Some might think about these matters a bit more, so I also wrote some footnotes down below. 44 Magnum ammo should do the trick though! While some may consider it the minimum, it's plenty powerful enough to stop an onerous bear. However, most bear encounters are under less than perfect conditions. Grizzlies may become aggressive for a number of reasons. I NEVER SLING OR STRAP MY SMOKE POLE, ALWAYS IN HAND AND PISTOL NOT SECURED UNLESS DOING SOMETHING WHEN IT COULD FALL OUT IF TUMBLE. When I worked as a hunting guide, my boss introduced me to our hunters as PETA Joe, do to my love of critters, I dont trust bears, theyre hard to make friends with. 2. All of your comments are irrelevant. WHEN FURTHER A FIELD ALSO CARRY MARLIN SS 1895 LEVER WITH BUFFALO BORE RECOMMENDED ROUND IN 45-70. It was the first bear attack in the region in forty years, and it didnt kill him, it slashed at him when he let his dog out and stepped outside, probably in panic that he was being attacked by a pack. As stated by Marshall and Sanow in Stopping Power, As a general trend, and all else being equal, stopping power increases as the size of the recovered bullet increases., In addition, their table Caliber Comparison on page 335 shows a significant advantage for .45 ACP over .38.special. This is really what the .44 mag was designed for., Yup. Yet the .500 Smith & Wesson Magnum handgun produces 2,254 ft.-lbs. When it comes to defending yourself against a bear attack, theres no substitute for 44 mag ammo. Aim for the center of mass whenever possible in order to ensure a quick and clean kill. Compared to pretty much every other mammal, humans are easy to put out of action. 2018 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice and link are included. Why dont you get a go pro and hike around grizzly country in the spring season with bear spray and post your live videos. A charging grizzly bear can reach speeds of 35 mph an hour for short distances and their acceleration rate is phenomenal. has 780 ft.-lbs. You have entered an incorrect email address! Im comfortable carrying the .38, with better bullets, where I hunt. Neither survived. As I pulled the revolver out, a sudden calm came over me, and I knew everything would be fine. Grizzlies may become aggressive for a number of reasons. Bear will win every time. There are other downsides to carrying larger firearms that may not pose as big a problem for some people. What did work was the short barrel shotgun. I learned things that could make the difference between success and failure. I am looking forward to seeing them. Its similar to the one my cousin uses. A Smith & Wesson Model 29, in .44 Remington Magnum - completely in the vein of Dirty Harry - still makes an excellent choice for the bear woods. While a well-placed shot from a 10mm can no doubt do the trick, the .357 Mag. ON OCCASION DO ALSO CARRY MY 870 PUMP GUN IN 12 GA WITH RIFLED BARREL WITH SLUGS , SLUGS AND BUCKSHOT AND JUST BUCKSHOT WHEN MOSTLY THINK I MAY NEED TO COVER SNAKES, BEARS AND LIONS ALL IN SAME WANDERING. It is imperative that your bear defense gun is readily available, quick to deploy and that you can place a shot on target under extreme stress. ALL ANIMALS UNPREDICTABLE, BEEN BUCKED OFF FOR NO APPARENT REASON BY MY USUALLY DOCILE AND FAITHFUL PINTO SEVERAL TIMES AND BITTEN BY MY SCOUT DOG IN NAM ONCE ON AMBUSH WHO REDEEMED HIMSELF BY SAVING MY LIFE THE NEXT AMBUSH. Wheres your manning-up and saying you were wrong, Hank? I see youre suddenly changing from Jesse Pinkman language to an exact imitation of Donald Trump-tweet language.Why? It was a statement that very few of us are in the far north, so very few of us are in the far-north areas where black bears are so much bigger, aggressive, and dangerous. Thats about the only way a handgun bullet is going to drop a charging bear that quickly. Best thing in the world? Well thought-out, well-researched, and well-said. Proper 9mm bullets yield sufficient penetration in soft tissue, but it may not stop a bear quickly enough to avoid being mauled. Will A 44 Magnum Kill A Bear - Grim Warrior The period of time for their data set was from 1883 to 2009. 12-Gauge SlugAccording to Nelson, the 12-gauge slug gun is by far one of the most popular choices for bear protection in the Alaskan bush. DO NOT SEE THE MTN LIONS MUCH BUT THEY ARE OUT THERE AS SEE THE TRACKS AND A GLANCE OUT THE WINDOW ONCE IN A WHILE. Such senseless killing. Don't bet your life on bear spray. I dont even know if Hank The Anonymous was insulting me, or how, or about what, because Hank cannot use words. In the event that I need to get off a second shot at a charging grizzly bear, I want a pistol I can handle comfortably, re-acquire a sight picture, and get off an accurate shot in the quickest possible time. It wasnt a challenge or snub to anyone, really. But I do know this. If you are carrying a handgun for self-protection against black bear, be sure to practice with it beforehand so that you are proficient in its use. Having gone on several backcountry hunts in bear territory, I am well aware of the need to carry a pistol that can be effective against grizzly bears. Ive clearly enraged you to the point where your more of a danger to yourself and others. MY BEST ADVICE HAVING HAD TO DEFEND MY SELF MANY TIMES IN WAR AND CIVILIAN LIFE IS BE AND STAY PREPARED WITH BEST EQUIPMENT CAN AFFORD AND BEST ADVICE YOU CAN SEEK. Mossberg 500 vs 590: Which Shotgun Is Right for You? has a well-deserved reputation as a charge-stopper. The .44 magnum boomed in the night and the boar fell straight down, his head three feet away from where I stood. As a wildcat cartridge, it hasnt seen the widespread use of other rounds on this list, but that hasnt stopped many guides and hunters, Nelson included, from converting Marlin lever guns for its very effective use. I spray with mine regularly, even though I have to buy a lot more of it, both for practice and for making sure its as potent as can be. Dean made a claim and provided evidence, then you made a claim and provided none, and when asked to provide evidence you refused and essentially said it was up to Dean to disprove your claim, which is not an intellectually honest way of aproaching a discussion. .338 Winchester Magnum The favorite among Alaskan guides as a backup gun, the .338 Winchester Magnum was released in 1958 as belted, rimless cartridge. In the ever-evolving world of social media, we are constantly looking for new ways to connect with our readers. However, as far as stopping power on even the largest grizzly bear, it delivers enough energy to get the job done. And he said nothing about thinking through the 29 reportswhich were somebody elses work, not his and making sure he understood them all the way through. At that distance, a shooter has roughly four seconds to make a charge-stopping shot, which requires a steady hand under intense pressure. of energy, while the 10mm has about 728 ft.-lbs., both with a 180-grain Buffalo Bore bullet. Want to feel fear for the right reasons? You should be using slugs, and not just your average deer slug but hot ones, and you can forget about buckshot. Always remember to check local regulations regarding firearms when traveling in bear country. As soon as I rounded the corner I spotted a probably 900lb brown bear, not barely 20yds away. 2) lots of bear attack stories lately. Mag. My uncle Dale dropped a charging sow with a neck shot at the same distance with a s&w 629. Why dont you stay there. These are the most vulnerable areas on a bear. And that was from a pretty stout rifle round, .300 Win Mag IIRC. Revolvers And Grizzly Bears - American Handgunner WHEN CLOSE TO HOUSE CHEST RIG WITH SHORT BARREL S/W .44 MAG OR SUPER RED HAWK .44 LONG BARREL. The first time a strong cross wind completely redirected the spray 90degrees to the side. .600 Nitro Express (900gr Kynoch solid at 2,000fps)(7992 ft lbs): 159.4, *** In his research of hundreds of bear attacks the people who used handguns usually did not survive the attack. of energy, and it takes a big grizzly to weigh 1,000 pounds. Personally, multiple rounds at close range with 00 buck will rip your fucking eyeballs out, no matter what you are. Yes, a 44 Magnum is capable of killing a bear, although it is not recommended as a bear defense arms. You still need to know how to use it effectively in order to maximize its potential. This is a website about guns, not WebMD. Probably the worst-case scenario that anyone spending time in bear country can face is a charging grizzly bear. It wasnt even language. And sometimes folks can save themselves with a handgun. The Glock 20 chambered in 10mm has become a popular carry choice in bear country. Elmer Keith developed it to hunt AK Brown bears. of energy at 1500 fps, while the 495-grain DDupleks leaves the muzzle at 1410 fps with 2,180 ft.-lbs. I could not figure out how it held the gun in place, so I grabbed the buckle and attempted to rip it off. 2 (90-5-5) alloy and size them to .430. The article was about pistols being used to defend against bears. I cast and powder coat these: Craig Boddingtons new book dispels the myth that carrying a handgun in big bear country is effective in stopping a bear. Sure looks like a bunch of weakling dodging on your part, Hank. You have avoided your burden of proof, and I have a problem with that. It might have continued on to hit the spine, resulting in the instant collapse of the bear. He or she could have one of the following, a 44 or larger with at least 300 grain flat nose, or a 12 guage shorty with 00 buck or a Brennicke slug. A 5" S&W 629 .44 Magnum revolver being fired with full power ammo at the point of maximum recoil. I LIVE IN COLORADO BETWEEN CRAIG, CO AND BAGGS, WY. Likely a happy accident for them due other evolutionary happenstances, but they are around because the weaker ones arent. .44 Magnum Bear Penetration Test! Can a Desert Eagle stop a Bear Assume those links are affiliate links, which means I may earn a commission if you click and buy. You write em and put your name on em, you have to do that heavy lifting. here is one of the links I had bookmarked; http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/41heavy.htm . .454 Casull Developed by Dick Casull and Jack Fulmer in 1957, the .454 Casull is a dangerous game hunters dream come true. I CARRY BEAR SPRAY FOR DOGS NOT BEARS. As with anything, the devil is in the details. Great story. Your comment is just what the doctor ordered. I have always acknowledged your educational and army background and qualifications when Ive criticized you. .45-70 Government (405gr SP at 1,330fps)(1,590 ft lbs): 35.2 The beauty of the .454, however, is that you can practice with .45 Colt rounds and save yourself a bit of recoil trauma. But I can count em well enough to know it was a lot more than the tiny sample of 29 that he cherry-picked to scare you. I looked in the direction of Reed only to once again see the bear charging at me. Every 1.5 pages, it tells you that youre now at the exact trail spot where yet another guy from yet another sawmill was killed by a grizzly on such and such a date. Thorofare Country south of Yellowstone, Grizzly at 10 feet, .44 magnum and .357 magnum, September, 2013 (report from 2015) Then at about 2:45 p.m., a collared boar grizzly identified as bear No . Human beings in the woods. Contrary to Gun Writer Myth and continuing bullshit about the Philippine Insurrection (polite world for jack booted storm trooper war of rape, pillage and conquest) Jan Liborel found that there was absolutely nothing in the U.S. Military records that indicated the .38 Colts were any less effective than the later used 45 long Colt and little used .45 acp handguns used in the conflict. They are lucky to have survived given they left their primary defensive weapon in a tree! I have watched ballistic videos from a FBI training video in shot placement. Does a 44 Magnum rifle kick? Next to Bison, they are the second largest cause of fatalities and mauling s in Yellowstone Park. Penetration is key, so hard cast lead is the way to go. He was a brave soul. Make sure to practice with your chosen firearm beforehand, and always check local regulations when traveling in bear country. Two questions: I was born and raised there. The cause and the effect of the .44 shot is obvious in the video. It was day 3 of the hunt and we decided to head home due to adverse weather. And as I said at the git-go, a hell of a lot of hunters have been mauled by grizzlies after they shot them. And you cant kill cancer or diabetes with a revolver. Elevated them to cult status, whether they deserve it or not. I live in a small native village in bush Alaska. Weight X Velocity X Diameter /7000 = TKOF Thankfully he decided to scale the cliff because it was a good 20 seconds or more before I could undo the straps to my rifle and get it pointed in his direction. My hope was that the shot would sting the bear and help scare him away along with the flame and loud report. If only those murderous hunters had been carrying bear spray, that poor bear would still be alive. And you actually said this:handguns are the best. Scopes, guns, boots and other tactical stuff in-between. 44 mag ammo for bear can be a life-saving tool, but only if it is used correctly. For animals, I always get concentrated-stream types. It isnt pleasant but I can shoot the 44 Magnum one-handed and manage a reasonable follow-up shot. JUST CALLED THEM ON THE PHONE AND MOST HELPFUL. As he fell, he bit at the ground and ended up with a mouthful of sod. You can easily see in this chart how the different calibers using standard factory loads compare in delivered energy down range. But how much time have you spent in the far northern woods so far in your life?. Sherman, set the wayback machine for September 7th, 2006. I have been asking for people to send in documented instances of people attempting to use pistols to defend against bears for over a year. In some cases, it may not even penetrate the bear's thick hide. Gun Watch. For big bear defense handguns, the Smith & Wesson 629 is hard to beat. We must not have read the same post. Bruh it's a black bear not a Grizzly. .44 Remington MagnumConsidered by many to be the minimum for big bear defense rounds, the .44 Remington Magnum was first introduced in 1955 for revolvers and gained widespread popularity in the 1970s thanks to Dirty Harry. (Its the one with the 18:26 time-stamp). .. Im kidding, of course! Very difficult to do, but an absolute guaranteed instant stopper. In this blog post, well discuss the importance of having 44 mag ammo for bear protection, and well give you some tips on how to use it effectively. No gun. If I was in the wilderness thered be a gun on me at all times. You could try noticing that fact, wondering about it, and asking, Why wouldnt you choose a long-barreled gun that shoots with higher velocity, better penetration, more accuracy, less muzzle flip, less recoil, and holds one more bullet to stop a charging bear?. And you have no idea how much anybody here spends in Bear Country. From thegreatwhitehunter.com: When Reed distracted the bear from its attack on me, I had time to concentrate on the holster. No big bears. Jim D. on Twitter: "@ClownWorld_ Do not go into bear country without a The latest way appears to be an app called CamoSpace, designed specifically for members of the hunting community. For example, I said Ive made lower-48 black bears leave my campsites a lot more than 29 times just by sounding irritated. What handgun can kill a grizzly bear? the rifles were left outside the tents, but inside the protective alarm wire. So, your friend may have downed a black bear with his 9, I dont think I would bet my life on one. Sorry, theres what you read and then theres real life. While not stated in the account, one of the pictures indicates the first, crucial shot, was to the center of the bears chest. Just try to accept the fact that handguns are the best and enjoy the show while it lasts because the rage that exists in you is going to be your demise. I DO GET THAT:) I think akgunner wrote a comment below the article which is more helpful than the article itself. Would I be able to stop a bear attack if it happened to me? But whenever he's in an area with a serious and credible grizzly threat, he likes his 12-gauge shotgun loaded with slugs. I suppose if one hit a bear in the eye with a .22 cal. How many people were attacked by humans in the last 40 years? for grizzly protection. Favorites include, from top, an S&W in .44 Mag, a Dan Wesson in .445 SuperMag and a single-action Ruger chambered in .41 Magnum. Unlock the Benefits of Knowing Your Winchester Serial Number, Complete Buyers Guide to the Sig Sauer P228. I am a fan of the .38 but grizz country aint the place for it. As an avid outdoors person (hunting and fishing mostly)I love to mention and link to various products and gear I use. As for his own writing, yeah, I sure do criticize it. The Griz, as he is often called, is actually the North American Brown Bear. Male grizzlies will defend their territory to the death. Timothy Treadwell and his girlfriend Amie Huguenard were killed in an unprovoked grizzly attack in Alaska on October 6th, 2003. DO NOT GO INTO LOT ABOUT GRAINS AND SUCH AS I THINK THESE INDIVIDUAL CHOICES BASED ON SHOOTERS PREFERENCE AND SITUATION. Yes Im sure youve read 12,000 books on bear attacks and subscribe to bear attack monthly while you work out to bear attack shows. Developed in 1976 by Ken Waters as a wildcat cartridge, the 7-30 Waters is based on the .30-30 Winchester necked down to 7mm to improve velocity and trajectory, with a significant drop off in felt recoil. Let's look at those assumptions a bit closer in the following table. The .44 magnum boomed in the night and the boar fell straight down, his head three feet away from where I stood. https://leeprecision.com/mold-6-cav-c430-310-rf.html That might be the reason. Click bait makes me so mad I wish I had a .44 magnum! That same bullet in a .357 Magnum exits a four-inch barrel upwards of 1,400 fps. He never said pistols were 100% effective. Using the Mag. NOT UNUSUAL TO HAVE BEARS CLOSE TO CABIN EATING BERRIES OR GETTING A DRINK. To give folks working in dangerous animal country a very portable self defense tool. Generally speaking, though, most 44 Magnum rounds should be able to stop a black bear or grizzly in its tracks. As the bear charge drill in his course demonstrates, the average bear attack will happen at 50 yards or less with an 800-pound animal moving at 30 mph. I am not sure I can perform this feat with a 450 Casull or a .460 S&W. Its good to be prepared regardless how many times you visit the wilderness. They know theyre probably going to wind up underneath any grizzly that charges, shot or not. What matters more is the right bullet. So that makes two attacks on humans. Caliber: .44 Magnum. Bear Gun Shootout: 10mm Auto vs 44 Mag. | Outdoor Life My hunting friend swears by his Ruger Red Hawk Alaskan. It would have been just as inaccessible while my body was pumping with adrenaline. Considered by many to be the minimum for big bear defense rounds, the .44 Remington Magnum was first introduced in 1955 for revolvers and gained widespread popularity in the 1970s thanks to Dirty Harry. of energy. Hollywood has done the same thing for other rounds. These two not only affect the delivered energy of your bullet but also the weight and felt recoil that you will experience. . I can spare you some. Many laud the .44 Magnum as real bear medicine, and it's got plenty of power for a bear defense handgunas long as you remember that it's still not a rifle. This is the end of my comment. Are you melting snowflake? But they dont press that fear button like bears, do they? Any way you slice it, the .357 has proven itself as a worthy close-range bear stopper. In a .44 Magnum a 240-grain JSP or a 220-grain or heavier silhouette-style bullet like Federal loads commercially and other bullet makers offer for handloading are also fine choices. is the standard most American hunters use. WE HAVE WOLVES, MTN LIONS AND BEARS APLENTY AROUND MY ELK CAMP. Because of this thing called real world experience. So dont lecture other people about losing an attitude, make more of an effort, like I did, and youll get the facts, like I did. So, people are mauled by bears. They routinely feed on the gut piles of hunter-killed elk and, along with their cousins Alaska brown bears, are known to try to claim carcasses from hunters. That means having the right gear, and knowing how to use it. The 44 magnum is no exception. No, but if he cant get his long gun out its better than a knife or bare hands (pardon the pun). What happened? A 9, 38, or 45 isnt an adequate round for something as large as a bear, with think hide, fur and muscles. Since then, I have switched to a GunfightersINC chest holster. If you live and work in bear country, you know the importance of being prepared for that chance encounter with a bear who has malintent and you for a target. People arent buying snubbies in big calibers for this kind of situation any more than theyre buying large knives because they want to join that one guy who actually did kill a grizzly with a Ka-Bar. Dean Weingarten is a fear salesman, and not just in this article, but most of his others. For hiking and camping, I prefer a chest rig. The .357 is also available in smaller-framed revolvers that fit smaller hands, making it ideal for women and less experienced shooters. Actually looking for 300 grain .411 hardcast. Can a .44 Magnum L5 Desert Eagle stop a Bear attack? Your comment here is snarky and uneducated. HUMANS AND PIT BULLS ONLY THING HAVE HAD TO SHOOT TO DEFEND MY SELF AND NO DESIRE TO TEST THE .44 AGAINST BEARS OR SUCH BUT FEEL THEY WILL GIVE ME THE BEST CHANCE AND I AGREE ON BEST AMMO FOR JOB. Heard that from a park ranger or game warden, no doubt. The second time it was dead calm, but it sure wasnt a 16ft spray. Tyler Freel A 12 gauge's effectiveness can vary tremendously based on the ammunition used. Presumably he removed it when they started cleaning the moose, which is probably the worst time to do so. A bear is not a human and self-defense rounds are not as effective on a bear as you might expect. Defense Against Bears with Pistols: 97% Success rate, 37 incidents by He said that handguns stop attacking bears almost 100% of the time. It depends on the situation, as well as the type of bear in question. 7. Far more important, in my book, is the ability to draw and accurately fire your bear defense weapon in a very short period of time. My partner had never been Face To Face with a Bear before, but he did well (said he never heard a word I said) You just do what you have to do, thats all. Of which he found 29 accounts. He was able to stop the attack by shooting the bear as it charged at him. Does that (true, b.t.w.) For 43 years Ive read so many detailed reports men who were mauled after grizzlies were shot, I almost cant count em all. Im thankful that Ive never had to defend myself against anything but an overly aggressive dog. Very few handguns can stop a 600 lb. Yes you do want a magnum. Grizzly bears can operate much longer that humans due to the way their circulatory system/muscles work. I WAS STILL PRETTY DANGEROUS WHEN WOUNDED AND SAME APPLIES TO BEAR. However, using a more powerful cartridge such as the .44 Magnum is recommended to ensure quick and humane kills. Now thats a first-class comment! I stood in a dumbfounded stupor. In conclusion, using a cartridge such as the .44 Magnum is recommended when hunting black bear in order to ensure a quick and humane kill. Its also capable of sending a massive projectile, like Buffalo Bores 430-grain hard-cast bullet, at roughly 2000 fps and 3,600 ft.-lbs. akgunners command of language, his clarity of thought, and his thinking were just superb today. FLORIDA IN WINTER AND HAVE USED IT ON SEVERAL PIT BULLS AFTER ME AND NOT THAT IMPRESSED, FIGURE PISSED OFF BEAR 100 X PIT BULL SO NO THANKS. I grew up half the time in Alaska and the other half in Seattle. His raging confrontational writing style that relies upon fabricated facts, is so close to his that I wouldnt be surprised if it was revealed that he indeed is actually my nephew. I recommend training and study before using. Down in the article a little ways Paco talks about his bear kill. Smith & Wesson Model 629. Choosing The Right Rifle For Grizzly Bear Hunting Sorry Scotty, but you missed again. The full account is worth reading for anyone interested in the dynamics of bear attacks and the effectiveness of pistols for defense against bears. 357 Mag, and says, when it comes to handguns and bears, what matters is getting the most hits on target in the shortest amount of time. .45-70 GovernmentFirst adopted by the U.S. military in 1873, the .45-70 Government has been one of the longest-standing big-game cartridges of all time. However, Ive learned a few things. There is no doubt in my mind that the .44 magnum cartridge is a viable choice as a bear defense gun. At the ranges that most bear attacks occur, you dont need a longer barrel to deliver accuracy out to distant ranges. However, the goal of this article is simply to address the question of whether the .300 Winchester Magnum is within the ideal range of suitable calibers to harvest grizzly or brown bear. Someone who hates you. Sad! A well placed shot from a .44 Magnum will penetrate both shoulders of a black bear with ease. When it comes to recognizing and responding to a bear attack, few people have as much experience as Alaskas Steve Nelson, a former research geologist for the U.S. Geological Survey whos spent the last 41 years teaching bear defense courses in the Last Frontier. in Southern Cal., I have been on many gangland shootings involving the 9mm.While it does have the necessary power to kill people, as often as not, people survive being shot with this caliber.The last call involving a 9mm, the victim was shot 15 times and was still fighting us to get up off the gurney and get some payback. There was no time for the careful placement of the front sight, as the bear was nearly upon him. of energy at the muzzle. Despite NGs statement about black bears normally running when confronted by a human, do not bet your life on it!
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